Discussion:
Testing 845 tubes
(too old to reply)
David Ginsberg
2007-07-12 00:49:40 UTC
Permalink
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
Andre Jute
2007-07-12 03:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Ginsberg
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
If you have to rig a socket and a supply anyway, and if you own a
scope, you may as well take your own curves from these tubes.

The 500V 845 was a Japanese craze about a dozen years ago. A 500V 845,
even with fixed bias, sounds like shit, nothing like the real thing at
one of its sweet spots. A better transmitting tube for (relatively)
low voltage operation is Svet's SV572-xx.

The 845 has some well-known sweet spots. Two I discovered for myself
are 960V and 1040V. About 75-80mA current is also better than the 300B-
derived 60mA an American "winder" tried to push once. Furthermore, the
plate load should be around 10K. Finally, the drive requirement is
very high; besides 150V signal, minimum, you will need to to operate
the driver with at least 20mA on the plate, or Miller will kill your
sound.

When you do everything right, the 845 is God's own tube, warm and
enveloping, like those smokey jazz stations you could hear all over
America when I first toured all around it as a student on the
Greyhound in the 1960s. The 845 leaves another highly rated
transmitting tube, the 211, for dead.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
David Ginsberg
2007-07-12 03:18:32 UTC
Permalink
I'm not really looking to build an amp with these tubes; it's just
that I would like some simple snapshot of their strength. It seems
that I would have to, at the very least, build a 950 volt B+,light
them up with 10 volts and set the bias to see if I can flow 75ma.
Right?
Post by Andre Jute
Post by David Ginsberg
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
If you have to rig a socket and a supply anyway, and if you own a
scope, you may as well take your own curves from these tubes.
The 500V 845 was a Japanese craze about a dozen years ago. A 500V 845,
even with fixed bias, sounds like shit, nothing like the real thing at
one of its sweet spots. A better transmitting tube for (relatively)
low voltage operation is Svet's SV572-xx.
The 845 has some well-known sweet spots. Two I discovered for myself
are 960V and 1040V. About 75-80mA current is also better than the 300B-
derived 60mA an American "winder" tried to push once. Furthermore, the
plate load should be around 10K. Finally, the drive requirement is
very high; besides 150V signal, minimum, you will need to to operate
the driver with at least 20mA on the plate, or Miller will kill your
sound.
When you do everything right, the 845 is God's own tube, warm and
enveloping, like those smokey jazz stations you could hear all over
America when I first toured all around it as a student on the
Greyhound in the 1960s. The 845 leaves another highly rated
transmitting tube, the 211, for dead.
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
Andre Jute
2007-07-12 04:25:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Ginsberg
I'm not really looking to build an amp with these tubes; it's just
that I would like some simple snapshot of their strength. It seems
that I would have to, at the very least, build a 950 volt B+,light
them up with 10 volts and set the bias to see if I can flow 75ma.
Right?
Right. But if that means building a whole kilovolt power supply... Al
Marcy already gave you the best course of action: test the filaments
to see if they light up and leave it at that. In your position I
wouldn't even do that much, I'd just test the fils for continuity and
sell the tubes as is.

Alternatively, send them to Chris Hornbeck for testing in his amp.

Hey, Al, I used to have an 845 as a bedside lamp but it had an
accident with a cat.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Post by David Ginsberg
Post by Andre Jute
Post by David Ginsberg
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
If you have to rig a socket and a supply anyway, and if you own a
scope, you may as well take your own curves from these tubes.
The 500V 845 was a Japanese craze about a dozen years ago. A 500V 845,
even with fixed bias, sounds like shit, nothing like the real thing at
one of its sweet spots. A better transmitting tube for (relatively)
low voltage operation is Svet's SV572-xx.
The 845 has some well-known sweet spots. Two I discovered for myself
are 960V and 1040V. About 75-80mA current is also better than the 300B-
derived 60mA an American "winder" tried to push once. Furthermore, the
plate load should be around 10K. Finally, the drive requirement is
very high; besides 150V signal, minimum, you will need to to operate
the driver with at least 20mA on the plate, or Miller will kill your
sound.
When you do everything right, the 845 is God's own tube, warm and
enveloping, like those smokey jazz stations you could hear all over
America when I first toured all around it as a student on the
Greyhound in the 1960s. The 845 leaves another highly rated
transmitting tube, the 211, for dead.
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps athttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
Peter Wieck
2007-07-12 10:21:49 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 11, 10:18 pm, David Ginsberg
Post by David Ginsberg
I'm not really looking to build an amp with these tubes; it's just
that I would like some simple snapshot of their strength.
Funny how despite all the blather and pontification you have not
gotten your basic question answered.

Test them as you would a standard 45 triode, with 10V on the filament
and something on the order of 12V on the bias setting.

This will not be a very accurate test inasmuch as most testers will
not put sufficient voltage on the plate, but as you want a 'snapshot',
it will be enough to represent them as they are.

If it "lifts the pin", it will be enough to know that the tube has
emissions. And you can test them relative to each other with that
much. If you can measure plate current at a given filament current,
you can even 'match' them to some degree.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA
tubegarden
2007-07-12 03:31:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andre Jute
Post by David Ginsberg
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
If you have to rig a socket and a supply anyway, and if you own a
scope, you may as well take your own curves from these tubes.
The 500V 845 was a Japanese craze about a dozen years ago. A 500V 845,
even with fixed bias, sounds like shit, nothing like the real thing at
one of its sweet spots. A better transmitting tube for (relatively)
low voltage operation is Svet's SV572-xx.
The 845 has some well-known sweet spots. Two I discovered for myself
are 960V and 1040V. About 75-80mA current is also better than the 300B-
derived 60mA an American "winder" tried to push once. Furthermore, the
plate load should be around 10K. Finally, the drive requirement is
very high; besides 150V signal, minimum, you will need to to operate
the driver with at least 20mA on the plate, or Miller will kill your
sound.
When you do everything right, the 845 is God's own tube, warm and
enveloping, like those smokey jazz stations you could hear all over
America when I first toured all around it as a student on the
Greyhound in the 1960s. The 845 leaves another highly rated
transmitting tube, the 211, for dead.
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps athttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
Hi RATs!

Just test the filaments and say if the filaments are good. You can't
begin to test for 845 performance. 845 users are all crazier than me.
If they are intersted, they will bid. Playing test magician can be
fun, but, it would cost more than the price of some 845's to get any
useful information. If, on the other hand, you just happen to have a
1000 or 1500V transformer and a couple of 300B amps to drive them ...
naw, just test the fils and sell them. If you have a big 10V supply,
like an old Lambda, you should light them up - just for future
refence ;)

I keep an 845 on my bedstand, just for prowlers ...

Happy Ears!
Al
Chris Hornbeck
2007-07-12 03:52:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by tubegarden
Just test the filaments and say if the filaments are good. You can't
begin to test for 845 performance. 845 users are all crazier than me.
If they are intersted, they will bid. Playing test magician can be
fun, but, it would cost more than the price of some 845's to get any
useful information. If, on the other hand, you just happen to have a
1000 or 1500V transformer and a couple of 300B amps to drive them ...
naw, just test the fils and sell them. If you have a big 10V supply,
like an old Lambda, you should light them up - just for future
reference ;)
And if you do, you'll decide to keep 'em. Arf. Smaller
projects have begin from larger begunnings.

Not at all certain that I'd recommend that folks with a
windfall of high voltage transmitting tubes just begin
with some flywire teststrapping... But...

OTOH, why not? That's the way we were raised, and we're
still here to bitch about it.
Post by tubegarden
I keep an 845 on my bedstand, just for prowlers ...
I hope it's just for the hitting-over-the-head part
of prowler-dealing-with. Anything else would be just
too graphic for our Newsgroup.

Thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
"He's no fun. He fell right over." -Firesign Theater
Chris Hornbeck
2007-07-12 03:24:32 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:49:40 GMT, David Ginsberg
Post by David Ginsberg
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
If you don't intend to actually use them, then the "Life Test"
used for oxide-cathode tubes, properly and clearly qualified,
might be as honest and complete a characterization as you can
arrange (excluding test in a real amplifier). You'll still need
to arrange shirtloads of externals, including the filament supply,
etc.

But:

How many is a few? Where are you? Maybe somebody within shipping
distance could test 'em in a real amplifier. I'm in Little Rock,
USA, and could test 'em at 1000 volts 80mA, but there're folks
all over the world with 845 audio finals.

"We are not many, but we know how to find each other" (or something
similarly poorly translated) -from the Spanish resistance.


ps: If you have any United Electronics' don't tell anybody, even me.

Thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
"He's no fun. He fell right over." -Firesign Theater
Patrick Turner
2007-07-12 16:26:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Ginsberg
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
Genuininely new old stock 845 would be about as rare as rocking horse
shit.

Its likely that any buyer of these old tubes will assume
they are pulls from a modulator or transmitter set as part of regular
service.
Many tubes with plenty of life for amateurs were available from the guys
who were
contracted to maintain gear using 845 including regular tube
replacements.

Not now though; all the good old tubes were mainly used up, and the gear
junked for something new.

So to get a better than $5 each price for the tubes you'd need to set up
a test rig
with 1,100V B+, and an adjustable bias supply of -180V, +/-50V.

Then run the tube with 65mA and see if the grid bias voltage required
for each sample
tallies with tube data.
Use about a 20k bias R max, and keep a close watch while testing, and
have a 10ohm R
between cathode and 0V to monitor Ik.

Monitor the voltage across the biasing resistance.
If the grid is a bit more positive than the actual bias pot ( 5 watt
wire wound!), ie,
some DC current appears to flow towards the grid, then check to see if
its
not more than maximum allowable.

This should be watched carefully as the tube warms towards its normal
temperature
for class A operation which is how the tube will most likely be used,
ie, in some dude's SET audio amp.

The 1,100V and 65mA gives a Pda = 75 watts approx , and is higher than
what it would be if used for class AB in an old modulator.

After 3 hours the bias should remain steady and the grid current causing
slight voltage across the bias R should be less than 0.1V.

If its several volts, probably the tube is stuffed, and not worth a
cent.

If -250V is required to hold the anode current to 65mA, the tube is
stuffed.

There should not be huge variations away from the operation points found
on the
data curves.

If the gettering has large brownish shaded edges and looks kinda messy,
then the tubes are very used,
and worth $2, even if they work a bit.

Once the tube is idling at 65mA, you should be able to make a change of
-10V to the grid voltage,
and record the change to cathode current.
The transconductance (gm) can then be worked out for that operating
point,
and a record placed on the box for that tube.
If you have a change of 31mA for 10V grid voltage change, then gm =
31/10 = 3.1mA/V.
The tube is most likely OK if you get 3.1mA/V according to the data.
An accurate measurement of gm requires a steady B+ supply.

If 1,100V sounds like too much trouble, then 500V might be OK and a
lower bias voltage
can be used. But get the Pda up to at least 50 watts regardless, and see
how they last.
500V Ea needs Eg1 = -50V at 90mA approx.

But let ppl know how you tested them. Maybe you get $50 each.

New ones are mainly chinese, maybe $150, but then there are the KR Audio
types for about $300 each...
http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Kr/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=13&ProductID=6

If anyone has amps made by KR, they are not likely to want to put in
some ancient old
pulls that could give them troubles.

Check the old RCA data, its available on the Net.

Patrick Turner.
David Ginsberg
2007-07-13 11:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for some food for thought. I had an old socket lying around and
rigged up a filiment supply; 4 of five lit up. I heated up the
filiment pins with the old trusted Weller, but alas, the fifth has an
open filiment. That will be my display in my listening room.
I do think the advice to just sell them stating good filiments is the
way I'll go; I just checked eBay and a couple of recent auctions
yielded gratifying prices with no other test data.
Last question; three have black plates but one, has a brass base and a
'tit' on the top of the envelope. Branded Sylvania, it has a
silver-colored plate and looks quite old. Is this, too, an 845? I
can't find any numbers but I might put it in the freezer anf then fog
it up to see if anything shows......


On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:26:58 GMT, Patrick Turner
Post by Patrick Turner
Post by David Ginsberg
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
Genuininely new old stock 845 would be about as rare as rocking horse
shit.
Its likely that any buyer of these old tubes will assume
they are pulls from a modulator or transmitter set as part of regular
service.
Many tubes with plenty of life for amateurs were available from the guys
who were
contracted to maintain gear using 845 including regular tube
replacements.
Not now though; all the good old tubes were mainly used up, and the gear
junked for something new.
So to get a better than $5 each price for the tubes you'd need to set up
a test rig
with 1,100V B+, and an adjustable bias supply of -180V, +/-50V.
Then run the tube with 65mA and see if the grid bias voltage required
for each sample
tallies with tube data.
Use about a 20k bias R max, and keep a close watch while testing, and
have a 10ohm R
between cathode and 0V to monitor Ik.
Monitor the voltage across the biasing resistance.
If the grid is a bit more positive than the actual bias pot ( 5 watt
wire wound!), ie,
some DC current appears to flow towards the grid, then check to see if
its
not more than maximum allowable.
This should be watched carefully as the tube warms towards its normal
temperature
for class A operation which is how the tube will most likely be used,
ie, in some dude's SET audio amp.
The 1,100V and 65mA gives a Pda = 75 watts approx , and is higher than
what it would be if used for class AB in an old modulator.
After 3 hours the bias should remain steady and the grid current causing
slight voltage across the bias R should be less than 0.1V.
If its several volts, probably the tube is stuffed, and not worth a
cent.
If -250V is required to hold the anode current to 65mA, the tube is
stuffed.
There should not be huge variations away from the operation points found
on the
data curves.
If the gettering has large brownish shaded edges and looks kinda messy,
then the tubes are very used,
and worth $2, even if they work a bit.
Once the tube is idling at 65mA, you should be able to make a change of
-10V to the grid voltage,
and record the change to cathode current.
The transconductance (gm) can then be worked out for that operating
point,
and a record placed on the box for that tube.
If you have a change of 31mA for 10V grid voltage change, then gm =
31/10 = 3.1mA/V.
The tube is most likely OK if you get 3.1mA/V according to the data.
An accurate measurement of gm requires a steady B+ supply.
If 1,100V sounds like too much trouble, then 500V might be OK and a
lower bias voltage
can be used. But get the Pda up to at least 50 watts regardless, and see
how they last.
500V Ea needs Eg1 = -50V at 90mA approx.
But let ppl know how you tested them. Maybe you get $50 each.
New ones are mainly chinese, maybe $150, but then there are the KR Audio
types for about $300 each...
http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Kr/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=13&ProductID=6
If anyone has amps made by KR, they are not likely to want to put in
some ancient old
pulls that could give them troubles.
Check the old RCA data, its available on the Net.
Patrick Turner.
Patrick Turner
2007-07-13 16:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Ginsberg
Thanks for some food for thought. I had an old socket lying around and
rigged up a filiment supply; 4 of five lit up. I heated up the
filiment pins with the old trusted Weller, but alas, the fifth has an
open filiment. That will be my display in my listening room.
I do think the advice to just sell them stating good filiments is the
way I'll go; I just checked eBay and a couple of recent auctions
yielded gratifying prices with no other test data.
Last question; three have black plates but one, has a brass base and a
'tit' on the top of the envelope. Branded Sylvania, it has a
silver-colored plate and looks quite old. Is this, too, an 845? I
can't find any numbers but I might put it in the freezer anf then fog
it up to see if anything shows......
I don't know any more than you know about the tube with a tit.

Just be careful with cooling and thawing; don't crack the glass.

I'd never buy a batch of old untested tubes of any kind unless
the price was so low I could afford the gamble.

And many who like 845 might just take the risk.

But when ppl have given me a box full of tubes, often for free,
usually 90% are pulls, and the guy has removed a tube from an amp, radio
or TV and
placed it into the new tubes box, and put it back on the shelf
instead of into the bin where it belongs if its crook.

But sometimes the 10% which are not pulls are absolute gems,
and were actually brand new, and so I always accept electronic
orphans at this address.


Patrick Turner.
David Ginsberg
2007-07-13 21:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Sorry! I made a mistake about the brass-based '845' with the silver
plates. It is not a Sylvania, in fact, there are some letters and
numbers (one of which seems to be '29') written on the inside of the
element support glass. If that's a date, this might not be an 845
since I seem to remember reading that the 845 was introduced in 1931.
The edge of the brass that contacs the glass is serrated and there is
a tit on top. 10.25 volts lit it up though....

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:46:54 GMT, David Ginsberg
Post by David Ginsberg
Thanks for some food for thought. I had an old socket lying around and
rigged up a filiment supply; 4 of five lit up. I heated up the
filiment pins with the old trusted Weller, but alas, the fifth has an
open filiment. That will be my display in my listening room.
I do think the advice to just sell them stating good filiments is the
way I'll go; I just checked eBay and a couple of recent auctions
yielded gratifying prices with no other test data.
Last question; three have black plates but one, has a brass base and a
'tit' on the top of the envelope. Branded Sylvania, it has a
silver-colored plate and looks quite old. Is this, too, an 845? I
can't find any numbers but I might put it in the freezer anf then fog
it up to see if anything shows......
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:26:58 GMT, Patrick Turner
Post by Patrick Turner
Post by David Ginsberg
I just scored a few really old 845 triodes, (at least one has a brass
base). I know it's easy to check filiment continuity, and I believe
these things need 10 volts at 3.25 amps to light them up. At some
point I'll probably sell them on eBay but I want to try and rig up a
test set so I can be honest about their quality. I own an AVO Mk. IV
and am wondering if anyone knows if it is possible to make an adapter
to enable me to check how good these are. I do know that the 845 needs
lots of B+, on the order of 900 volts and I understand that there are
some circuits that run it on 500 volts, though.......
Genuininely new old stock 845 would be about as rare as rocking horse
shit.
Its likely that any buyer of these old tubes will assume
they are pulls from a modulator or transmitter set as part of regular
service.
Many tubes with plenty of life for amateurs were available from the guys
who were
contracted to maintain gear using 845 including regular tube
replacements.
Not now though; all the good old tubes were mainly used up, and the gear
junked for something new.
So to get a better than $5 each price for the tubes you'd need to set up
a test rig
with 1,100V B+, and an adjustable bias supply of -180V, +/-50V.
Then run the tube with 65mA and see if the grid bias voltage required
for each sample
tallies with tube data.
Use about a 20k bias R max, and keep a close watch while testing, and
have a 10ohm R
between cathode and 0V to monitor Ik.
Monitor the voltage across the biasing resistance.
If the grid is a bit more positive than the actual bias pot ( 5 watt
wire wound!), ie,
some DC current appears to flow towards the grid, then check to see if
its
not more than maximum allowable.
This should be watched carefully as the tube warms towards its normal
temperature
for class A operation which is how the tube will most likely be used,
ie, in some dude's SET audio amp.
The 1,100V and 65mA gives a Pda = 75 watts approx , and is higher than
what it would be if used for class AB in an old modulator.
After 3 hours the bias should remain steady and the grid current causing
slight voltage across the bias R should be less than 0.1V.
If its several volts, probably the tube is stuffed, and not worth a
cent.
If -250V is required to hold the anode current to 65mA, the tube is
stuffed.
There should not be huge variations away from the operation points found
on the
data curves.
If the gettering has large brownish shaded edges and looks kinda messy,
then the tubes are very used,
and worth $2, even if they work a bit.
Once the tube is idling at 65mA, you should be able to make a change of
-10V to the grid voltage,
and record the change to cathode current.
The transconductance (gm) can then be worked out for that operating
point,
and a record placed on the box for that tube.
If you have a change of 31mA for 10V grid voltage change, then gm =
31/10 = 3.1mA/V.
The tube is most likely OK if you get 3.1mA/V according to the data.
An accurate measurement of gm requires a steady B+ supply.
If 1,100V sounds like too much trouble, then 500V might be OK and a
lower bias voltage
can be used. But get the Pda up to at least 50 watts regardless, and see
how they last.
500V Ea needs Eg1 = -50V at 90mA approx.
But let ppl know how you tested them. Maybe you get $50 each.
New ones are mainly chinese, maybe $150, but then there are the KR Audio
types for about $300 each...
http://www.kraudioproducts.com/Kr/ProductDetail.aspx?CatID=13&ProductID=6
If anyone has amps made by KR, they are not likely to want to put in
some ancient old
pulls that could give them troubles.
Check the old RCA data, its available on the Net.
Patrick Turner.
Chris Hornbeck
2007-07-14 03:13:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:38:25 GMT, David Ginsberg
Post by David Ginsberg
Sorry! I made a mistake about the brass-based '845' with the silver
plates. It is not a Sylvania, in fact, there are some letters and
numbers (one of which seems to be '29') written on the inside of the
element support glass. If that's a date, this might not be an 845
since I seem to remember reading that the 845 was introduced in 1931.
The edge of the brass that contacs the glass is serrated and there is
a tit on top. 10.25 volts lit it up though....
Type 845's are easy to distinguish by their grid winding
pitch. Does the spacing in your mystery tube look like
the others? If so, it's an 845.

Type 211's have (visually) about twice the number of
grid windings per vertical inch. Zero-bias-class-B
tubes have even more.

All good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck

"Ain't it easy when you know how. Brother Garth, the master."

"Everything seemed to be righteous."

- Levon Helm, on the great, great _The Band_ DVD
David Ginsberg
2007-07-14 03:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Good info, Chris. BTW I'm going to see Levon Helm tomorrow night at
the Bethel Woods Performing Arts Center. It's located 15 minutes from
my home at the site of the original Woodstock Festival. This all 100
miles NW of NY City. I'm psyched........

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 03:13:08 GMT, Chris Hornbeck
Post by Chris Hornbeck
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:38:25 GMT, David Ginsberg
Post by David Ginsberg
Sorry! I made a mistake about the brass-based '845' with the silver
plates. It is not a Sylvania, in fact, there are some letters and
numbers (one of which seems to be '29') written on the inside of the
element support glass. If that's a date, this might not be an 845
since I seem to remember reading that the 845 was introduced in 1931.
The edge of the brass that contacs the glass is serrated and there is
a tit on top. 10.25 volts lit it up though....
Type 845's are easy to distinguish by their grid winding
pitch. Does the spacing in your mystery tube look like
the others? If so, it's an 845.
Type 211's have (visually) about twice the number of
grid windings per vertical inch. Zero-bias-class-B
tubes have even more.
All good fortune,
Chris Hornbeck
"Ain't it easy when you know how. Brother Garth, the master."
"Everything seemed to be righteous."
- Levon Helm, on the great, great _The Band_ DVD
RdM
2007-07-14 12:23:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Ginsberg
Good info, Chris. BTW I'm going to see Levon Helm tomorrow night at
the Bethel Woods Performing Arts Center. It's located 15 minutes from
my home at the site of the original Woodstock Festival. This all 100
miles NW of NY City. I'm psyched........
COOL!

And of the Woodstock era, and IMO, worth the price of admission just for the
two Janis Joplin songs, only months before she died, although also including
The Band ,and The Grateful Dead, and an account of a Canadian train tour!
http://www.festivalexpress.com/

I bought a bunch (5-6-7?) of 813 recently;- ultimate UL audio tetrodes ... ?

Nearest I've come to 845, so far, anyway ... time will tell!
--
Regards;- RdM
Auckland, NZ.
b.1952:-) (please forgive the off-topic tangents!)

Recent, gorgeous, listening:- from the ECM label, Tord Gustavsen Trio:
"Changing Places" (and the more recent two albums since, and more!)
http://tinyurl.com/yvzgwo
Check out your own local library's CD collections ...
Post by David Ginsberg
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 03:13:08 GMT, Chris Hornbeck
Post by Chris Hornbeck
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:38:25 GMT, David Ginsberg
Post by David Ginsberg
Sorry! I made a mistake about the brass-based '845' with the silver
plates. It is not a Sylvania, in fact, there are some letters and
numbers (one of which seems to be '29') written on the inside of the
element support glass. If that's a date, this might not be an 845
since I seem to remember reading that the 845 was introduced in 1931.
The edge of the brass that contacs the glass is serrated and there is
a tit on top. 10.25 volts lit it up though....
Type 845's are easy to distinguish by their grid winding
pitch. Does the spacing in your mystery tube look like
the others? If so, it's an 845.
Type 211's have (visually) about twice the number of
grid windings per vertical inch. Zero-bias-class-B
tubes have even more.
All good fortune,
Chris Hornbeck
"Ain't it easy when you know how. Brother Garth, the master."
"Everything seemed to be righteous."
- Levon Helm, on the great, great _The Band_ DVD
Loading...